Is ccie's security better

What do you define as a security expert?

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  1. What do you define as a security expert?

    Author: Pathfinder90 21.01.19 - 15:30

    I always ask myself where I can assess myself, I am now 23 years old, have completed an apprenticeship and now have 3.5 years of professional experience. At the moment I am in the process of taking my CCNP Security exam and the goal is actually CCIE Security.
    What is called a security expert? Someone who understands malware and can exploit vulnerabilities or write their own exploits? Someone who enforces security guidelines in the company, such as B. SSH access only, no TFTP server or no data exchange between computers etc.? Or maybe a specialist like me who masters "security" systems (firewalls, proxy, AAA, load balancer, etc.)?
    You have to say that I work for a system house and am not an IT administrator.

    It is clear to me that I will not earn 170,000 euros at the age of 23, but it is always presented as if one were a low-income earner with ~ 45,000 euros?

  2. Re: What do you define as a security expert?

    Author: xNois 21.01.19 - 15:44

    In my opinion, the problem here is that every company has different views of such an expert.

    The job advertisements always have different focuses.

    Unfortunately, I have often seen that companies are looking for an all-rounder who can manage the entire infrastructure on their own. Including SysAdmin and NetzAdmin activities. Ideally, you also have security expertise.

    And the fact that ~ 45k / annual salary is presented so negatively has, among other things, to do with the influence of the headhunters (I guess).

  3. Re: What do you define as a security expert?

    Author: twothe 21.01.19 - 16:48

    There are basically 2 types of security experts: firemen and architects.

    What you are describing is the typical firefighter who knows penetration tests and in an emergency knows what to do and how to save the data. Such people are great at the end of a development, because they can test whether something has been done well, and because they can act correctly in an emergency.

    But what companies also need - and most of them don't know this - are security architects who design a system from the outset in such a way that break-ins are difficult on the one hand, and on the other (and this is how you recognize the real experts) ensure that Then, after a successful attack, as little data as possible is lost, or the processes are there and work as they should at the moment.

    The generic manager imagines IT security as putting a lock on the data and carefully guarding the key, and then they are safe and everything is good. And then it is very difficult to convey that someone could still find a way to circumvent this "immense" security, because "how likely is that, please?" In this respect, I think the GDPR is a good step in this regard, because it conjures up a price for these managers on the annual plan that they have to pay if someone does come in. However, real security costs money, and even with the GDPR, most of them keep paying the penalty against the salary costs and decide: "... nothing will happen."

  4. Re: What do you define as a security expert?

    Author: corruption 22.01.19 - 21:33

    With apprenticeship and your own further education ... then you come closer to the 30-36k ...
    If you already get 45k at the age of 23 for apprenticeship + smaller further education ... then you were very lucky! :) And so, after training, you are certainly NOT a low-income earner!

    For example, if you are doing a bachelor's degree and possibly a master’s degree in IT security in Bochum, a starting salary of 55-60k is realistic. My recommendation for you at the age of 23: Just do a degree. After that you will be an engineer, at least if you graduate in Bochum. You still have to do a few modules physics and electrical engineering so that you can use the protected term engineer, these are also the killer subjects for IT-Sec students! ;-) Experience shows that engineers get a boost more money if you know how to sell yourself.

    To get the numbers mentioned in the article (> 120k €) or more, you need a) huge company b) around 10 years of experience and many successful projects that you can show. Then at some point you are considered an expert. (And of course that comes with the master’s degree / doctorate degree, which later becomes more and more unimportant and more important are the projects in which you have successfully worked.)

    In general, large companies filter out in this area directly if you have not completed a degree. Often they even pay attention to the grades, especially with young people ... At the age of 23 and an apprenticeship you can only slip into it with a lot of luck.

  5. Re: What do you define as a security expert?

    Author: Pathfinder90 22.01.19 - 22:01

    45,000 € gross of course, in case anyone wonders ...
    Studies would certainly also be an option for me, but I would have to catch up on my Abitur and I don't see that at the moment.
    I can invest my time more meaningfully in practical work and do certifications. (CCIE Sec, Citrix Netscaler aKa ADC, Off Sec PenTesting etc.)

    But I am well aware of the topic, without a degree you can get out pretty quickly. I know a few who are now IT criminologists in the police force or are training to do so. I did some research there, but without a bachelor's degree you don't even need to apply, it is in bold in the first line ...

    I'm also out of the public service, without a degree you can go to work for an apple and an egg: D

    Well, it will show up, hopefully I still have a few years ahead of me haha
    The Bundeswehr is supposed to be looking for IT soldiers ... kappa

  6. Re: What do you define as a security expert?

    Author: SP1D3RM4N 22.01.19 - 22:29

    On the subject of Abitur. No, you don't have to make up for that. If you have a certain professional experience, you can study in this field. I'm not sure, but I think it's three years.

    But that is not a must, if you are good, a degree is just a piece of paper. I'm still a good bit under 30, have never seen the inside of a university and my salary is above average.



    Edited 1 times, last on 01/22/19 10:31 PM by SP1D3RM4N.

  7. Re: What do you define as a security expert?

    Author: Argh 23.01.19 - 11:20

    Pathfinder90 wrote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > 45,000 € gross of course, in case anyone wonders ...
    > Studies would certainly also be an option for me, but I would have to
    > catch up on my Abitur and I don't see that at the moment.
    > I can put my time more meaningfully into practical work and certi
    > do. (CCIE Sec, Citrix Netscaler aKa ADC, Off Sec PenTesting etc.)
    >
    > But I am well aware of the topic, without a degree you are just fine
    > out pretty quickly. I know a few of the now IT criminalists at the
    > Are the police or are training to do so. I got smart there too
    > done, but without a bachelor's degree you don't even need to apply, it says in bold
    > printed in the first line ...
    >
    > I'm also out of the public service, without a degree you can work there for
    > go to work an apple and an egg: D
    >
    > Well, it will show up, hopefully I still have a few years ahead of me
    > haha
    > The Bundeswehr is supposed to be looking for IT soldiers ... kappa

    I was recently on a training course with three IT soldiers who are totally unhappy because they are just sitting around. All three want to leave again.

    I can confirm that you only get certain sums in the public service, my wife works at a TU, she studied and gets an E10, her colleague, who does exactly the same thing, an E8 ....

    45K, gross with apprenticeship and "only" three years of work experience are mMn completely OK.
    Of course, it depends a bit on the region, industry and actual activity.

    For customers of ours in the banking sector, the AD "admins" "only get" 42K, but they also only do "stupid assistants" work such as creating and unlocking AD accounts and assigning / withdrawing calculations.

    Personally, I have around 50K and have to do a lot more than that. The difference from 8K per annum is, in my opinion, blatant, to my disadvantage.

  8. Re: What do you define as a security expert?

    Author: Neuro boss 28.01.19 - 20:06

    Pathfinder90 wrote:
    > 45,000 € gross of course, in case someone wonders ...
    > Studies would certainly also be an option for me, but I would have to
    > catch up on my Abitur and I don't see that at the moment.
    I am now in the 3rd semester, access via "3 + 3" rule, so 3 years of IT training and 3 years of admin job. You just have to have worked roughly in the apprenticeship and can then study appropriate subjects, so if you have a thumb, the full spectrum from computer science to electrical engineering.

    -> Howl! ¯ \ _ (ツ) _ / ¯

    “Nobody is perfect, but many are certainly crazy. «- Totally lunatic ಠ_ಠ

    Verified Top 500 Poster!

  9. Re: What do you define as a security expert?

    Author: Bluejanis 29.01.19 - 13:49

    How does the engineering degree help?
    I have one myself and I don't really know how it will help in any way. It's a nice thing, but I'm not aware of any advantages.

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